Interview with Henry Seale





Contact Us


Table of Contents


Search Site


home  Home


Google listing of all pages on this website


Site Map


Toby Johnson's Facebook page


Toby Johnson's YouTube channel


Toby Johnson on Wikipedia


Toby Johnson Amazon Author Page

Secure Site Comodo Seal

Secure site at

https://tobyjohnson.com



rainbow line

Also on this website:


Toby Johnson's books:

Toby's books are available as ebooks from smashwords.com, the Apple iBookstore, etc.


Finding Your Own True Myth - The Myth of the Great Secret III

FINDING YOUR OWN TRUE MYTH: What I Learned from Joseph Campbell: The Myth of the Great Secret III


Gay Spirituality

GAY SPIRITUALITY: The Role of Gay Identity in the Transformation of Human Consciousness


Gay Perspective


GAY PERSPECTIVE: Things Our Homosexuality Tells Us about the Nature of God and the Universe


Secret Matter


SECRET MATTER, a sci-fi novel with wonderful "aliens" with an Afterword by Mark Jordan


Getting Life

GETTING LIFE IN PERSPECTIVE:  A Fantastical Gay Romance set in two different time periods


The Fourth Quill

THE FOURTH QUILL, a novel about attitudinal healing and the problem of evil




Two Spirits
TWO SPIRITS: A Story of Life with the Navajo, a collaboration with Walter L. Williams



charmed lives
CHARMED LIVES: Spinning Straw into Gold: GaySpirit in Storytelling, a collaboration with Steve Berman and some 30 other writers


Myth of the Great Secret


THE MYTH OF THE GREAT SECRET: An Appreciation of Joseph Campbell



In Search of God


IN SEARCH OF GOD IN THE SEXUAL UNDERWORLD: A Mystical Journey



Unpublished manuscripts


About ordering


Books on Gay Spirituality:

White Crane Gay Spirituality Series


rainbow line

  Toby has done five podcasts with Harry Faddis for The Quest of Life

rainbow line

  Articles and Excerpts:

Review of Samuel Avery's The Dimensional Structure of Consciousness


Funny Coincidence: "Aliens Settle in San Francisco"


About Liberty Books, the Lesbian/Gay Bookstore for Austin, 1986-1996


The Simple Answer to the Gay Marriage Debate


A Bifurcation of Gay Spirituality


Why gay people should NOT Marry


The Scriptural Basis for Same Sex Marriage


Toby and Kip Get Married


Wedding Cake Liberation


Gay Marriage in Texas


What's ironic



Shame on the American People


The "highest form of love"


rainbow line


Gay Consciousness


Why homosexuality is a sin


The cause of homosexuality


The origins of homophobia


Advice to Future Gay Historians


Q&A about Jungian ideas in gay consciousness


What is homosexuality?


What is Gay Spirituality?


My three messages


What Jesus said about Gay Rights


Queering religion


Common Experiences Unique to Gay Men


Is there a "uniquely gay perspective"?


The purpose of homosexuality


Interview on the Nature of Homosexuality


What the Bible Says about Homosexuality


Mesosexual Ideal for Straight Men



Varieties of Gay Spirituality


Waves of Gay Liberation Activity


The Gay Succession


Wouldn’t You Like to Be Uranian?


The Reincarnation of Edward Carpenter


Queer men, myths and Reincarnation


Was I (or you) at Stonewall?


Why Gay Spirituality: Spirituality as Artistic Medium


Easton Mountain Retreat Center


Andrew Harvey & Spiritual Activism


The Mysticism of Andrew Harvey


The upsidedown book on MSNBC


rainbow line


Enlightenment


"It's Always About You"



The myth of the Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara


Joseph Campbell's description of Avalokiteshvara


You're Not A Wave



Joseph Campbell Talks about Aging



Toby's Experience of Zen




What is Enlightenment?



What is reincarnation?


What happens at Death?



How many lifetimes in an ego?



Emptiness & Religious Ideas



Experiencing experiencing experiencing



Going into the Light



Meditations for a Funeral



Meditation Practice



The way to get to heaven



Buddha's father was right



What Anatman means



Advice to Travelers to India & Nepal



The Danda Nata & goddess Kalika



A Funny Story: The Rug Salesmen of Istanbul



Nate Berkus is a bodhisattva



John Boswell was Immanuel Kant



Cutting edge realization



The Myth of the Wanderer



Change: Source of Suffering & of Bliss



World Navel



What the Vows Really Mean



Manifesting from the Subtle Realms



The Three-layer Cake & the Multiverse


The est Training and Personal Intention



Effective Dreaming in Ursula LeGuin's The Lathe of Heaven



Drawing a Long Straw: Ketamine at the Mann Ranch


Alan Watts & Multiple Solipsism



rainbow line

Gay Spirituality


Curious Bodies


What Toby Johnson Believes


The Joseph Campbell Connection


The Mann Ranch (& Rich Gabrielson)


Campbell & The Pre/Trans Fallacy


The Two Loves


The Nature of Religion


What's true about Religion


Being Gay is a Blessing


Drawing Long Straws


Freedom of Religion


Interview with Henry Seale


rainbow line


The Gay Agenda


Gay Saintliness


Gay Spiritual Functions



The subtle workings of the spirit in gay men's lives.


The Sinfulness of Homosexuality


Proposal for a study of gay nondualism


Priestly Sexuality


Having a Church to Leave


Harold Cole on Beauty


rainbow line


Marian Doctrines: Immaculate Conception & Assumption


Not lashed to the prayer-post


Monastic or Chaste Homosexuality


The Monastic Schedule: a whimsy


Is It Time to Grow Up? Confronting the Aging Process


Notes on Licking  (July, 1984)


Redeem Orlando


Gay Consciousness changing the world by Shokti LoveStar


Alexander Renault interviews Toby Johnson



rainbow line


Mystical Vision


"The Evolution of Gay Identity"


"St. John of the Cross & the Dark Night of the Soul."


Avalokiteshvara at the Baths


 Eckhart's Eye


Let Me Tell You a Secret


Religious Articulations of the Secret


The Collective Unconscious


Driving as Spiritual Practice


Meditation


Historicity as Myth


Pilgrimage


No Stealing


Next Step in Evolution


The New Myth


The Moulting of the Holy Ghost


Gaia is a Bodhisattva


Sex with God


Merging Religion and Sex


Revolution Through Consciousness Change: GSV 2019


God as Metaphor


More Metaphors for God


A non-personal metaphor God


rainbow line


The Hero's Journey


The Hero's Journey as archetype -- GSV 2016


The  Gay Hero Journey (shortened)


You're On Your Own


Superheroes


rainbow line


Seeing Differently


Teenage Prostitution and the Nature of Evil


Allah Hu: "God is present here"


 
Adam and Steve


The Life is in the Blood



Gay retirement and the "freelance monastery"


Seeing with Different Eyes


Facing the Edge: AIDS as an occasion for spiritual wisdom


What are you looking for in a gay science fiction novel?


rainbow line


The Vision


The mystical experience at the Servites'  Castle in Riverside


A  Most Remarkable Synchronicity in Riverside


The Great Dance according to C.S.Lewis


rainbow line

The Techniques Of The World Saviors

Part 1: Brer Rabbit and the Tar-Baby


Part 2: The Bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara


Part 3: Jesus and the Resurrection


Part 4: A Course in Miracles


rainbow line


The Secret of the Clear Light


Understanding the Clear Light


Mobius Strip


Finding Your Tiger Face


How Gay Souls Get Reincarnated


rainbow line


Joseph Campbell, the Hero's Journey, and the modern Gay Hero-- a five part presentation on YouTube


rainbow line


About Alien Abduction


In honor of Sir Arthur C Clarke


Karellen was a homosexual


The D.A.F.O.D.I.L. Alliance


Intersections with the movie When We Rise


More about Gay Mental Health


Psych Tech Training


Toby at the California Institute


The Rainbow Flag


Ideas for gay mythic stories


My first Peace March


rainbow line


People


Kip and Toby, Activists


Toby's friend and nicknamesake Toby Marotta.


Harry Hay, Founder of the gay movement


About Hay and The New Myth


About Karl Heinrich Ulrichs, the first man to really "come out"


About Michael Talbot, gay mystic


About Fr. Bernard Lynch


About Richard Baltzell


About Guy Mannheimer


About David Weyrauch


About Dennis Paddie


About Ask the Fire


About Arthur Evans


About Christopher Larkin


About Mark Thompson


About Sterling Houston


About Michael Stevens


The Alamo Business Council


Our friend Tom Nash


Second March on Washington


The Gay Spirituality Summit in May 2004 and the "Statement of Spirituality"


rainbow line

Book Reviews



Be Done on Earth by Howard E. Cook


Pay Me What I'm Worth by Souldancer


The Way Out by Christopher L  Nutter


The Gay Disciple by John Henson


Art That Dares by Kittredge Cherry


Coming Out, Coming Home by Kennth A. Burr


Extinguishing the Light by B. Alan Bourgeois


Over Coffee: A conversation For Gay Partnership & Conservative Faith by D.a. Thompson


Dark Knowledge by Kenneth Low


Janet Planet by Eleanor Lerman


The Kairos by Paul E. Hartman


Wrestling with Jesus by D.K.Maylor


Kali Rising by Rudolph Ballentine


The Missing Myth by Gilles Herrada


The Secret of the Second Coming by Howard E. Cook


The Scar Letters: A Novel by Richard Alther


The Future is Queer by Labonte & Schimel


Missing Mary by Charlene Spretnak


Gay Spirituality 101 by Joe Perez


Cut Hand: A Nineteeth Century Love Story on the American Frontier by Mark Wildyr


Radiomen by Eleanor Lerman


Nights at Rizzoli by Felice Picano


The Key to Unlocking the Closet Door by Chelsea Griffo


The Door of the Heart by Diana Finfrock Farrar


Occam’s Razor by David Duncan


Grace and Demion by Mel White


Gay Men and The New Way Forward by Raymond L. Rigoglioso


The Dimensional Stucture of Consciousness by Samuel Avery


The Manly Pursuit of Desire and Love by Perry Brass


Love Together: Longtime Male Couples on Healthy Intimacy and Communication by Tim Clausen


War Between Materialism and Spiritual by Jean-Michel Bitar


The Serpent's Gift: Gnostic Reflections on the Study of Religion by Jeffrey J. Kripal


Esalen: America and the Religion of No Religion by Jeffrey J. Kripal


The Invitation to Love by Darren Pierre


Brain, Consciousness, and God: A Lonerganian Integration by Daniel A Helminiak


A Walk with Four Spiritual Guides by Andrew Harvey


Can Christians Be Saved? by Stephenson & Rhodes


The Lost Secrets of the Ancient Mystery Schools by Stephenson & Rhodes


Keys to Spiritual Being: Energy Meditation and Synchronization Exercises by Adrian Ravarour


In Walt We Trust by John Marsh


Solomon's Tantric Song by Rollan McCleary


A Special Illumination by Rollan McCleary


Aelred's Sin by Lawrence Scott


Fruit Basket by Payam Ghassemlou


Internal Landscapes by John Ollom


Princes & Pumpkins by David Hatfield Sparks


Yes by Brad Boney


Blood of the Goddess by William Schindler


Roads of Excess, Palaces of Wisdom by Jeffrey Kripal


Evolving Dharma by Jay Michaelson


Jesus in Salome's Lot by Brett W. Gillette


The Man Who Loved Birds by Fenton Johnson


The Vatican Murders by Lucien Gregoire


"Sex Camp" by Brian McNaught


Out & About with Brewer & Berg
Episode One: Searching for a New Mythology



The Soul Beneath the Skin by David Nimmons


Out on Holy Ground by Donald Boisvert


The Revotutionary Psychology of Gay-Centeredness by Mitch Walker


Out There by Perry Brass


The Crucifixion of Hyacinth by Geoff Puterbaugh


The Silence of Sodom by Mark D Jordan


It's Never About What It's About by Krandall Kraus and Paul Borja


ReCreations, edited by Catherine Lake


Gospel: A Novel by WIlton Barnhard


Keeping Faith: A Skeptic’s Journey by Fenton Johnson


Dating the Greek Gods
by Brad Gooch


Telling Truths in Church by Mark D. Jordan


The Substance of God by Perry Brass


The Tomcat Chronicles by Jack Nichols


10 Smart Things Gay Men Can Do to Improve Their Lives by Joe Kort


Jesus and the Shamanic Tradition of Same Sex Love by Will Roscoe


The Third Appearance by Walter Starcke


The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight by Thom Hartmann


Surviving and Thriving After a Life-Threatening Diagnosis by Bev Hall


Men, Homosexuality, and the Gods by Ronald Long

An Interview with Ron Long


Queering Creole Spiritual Traditons by Randy Conner & David Sparks

An Interview with Randy Conner


Pain, Sex and Time by Gerald Heard


Sex and the Sacred by Daniel Helminiak


Blessing Same-Sex Unions by Mark Jordan


Rising Up by Joe Perez


Soulfully Gay by Joe Perez


That Undeniable Longing by Mark Tedesco


Vintage: A Ghost Story by Steve Berman


Wisdom for the Soul by Larry Chang


MM4M a DVD by Bruce Grether


Double Cross by David Ranan


The Transcended Christian by Daniel Helminiak


Jesus in Love by Kittredge Cherry


In the Eye of the Storm by Gene Robinson


The Starry Dynamo by Sven Davisson


Life in Paradox by Fr Paul Murray


Spirituality for Our Global Community by Daniel Helminiak


Gay & Healthy in a Sick Society by Robert A. Minor


Coming Out: Irish Gay Experiences by Glen O'Brien


Queering Christ by Robert Goss


Skipping Towards Gomorrah by Dan Savage


The Flesh of the Word by Richard A Rosato


Catland by David Garrett Izzo


Tantra for Gay Men by Bruce Anderson


Yoga & the Path of the Urban Mystic by Darren Main


Simple Grace by Malcolm Boyd


Seventy Times Seven by Salvatore Sapienza


What Does "Queer" Mean Anyway? by Chris Bartlett


Critique of Patriarchal Reasoning by Arthur Evans


Gift of the Soul by Dale Colclasure & David Jensen


Legend of the Raibow Warriors by Steven McFadden


The Liar's Prayer by Gregory Flood


Lovely are the Messengers by Daniel Plasman


The Human Core of Spirituality by Daniel Helminiak


3001: The Final Odyssey by Arthur C. Clarke


Religion and the Human Sciences by Daniel Helminiak


Only the Good Parts by Daniel Curzon


Four Short Reviews of Books with a Message


Life Interrupted by Michael Parise


Confessions of a Murdered Pope by Lucien Gregoire


The Stargazer's Embassy by Eleanor Lerman


Conscious Living, Conscious Aging by Ron Pevny


Footprints Through the Desert by Joshua Kauffman


True Religion by J.L. Weinberg


The Mediterranean Universe by John Newmeyer


Everything is God by Jay Michaelson


Reflection by Dennis Merritt


Everywhere Home by Fenton Johnson


Hard Lesson by James Gaston


God vs Gay? by Jay Michaelson


The Gate of Tears: Sadness and the Spiritual Path by Jay Michaelson


Roxie & Fred by Richard Alther


Not the Son He Expected by Tim Clausen


The 9 Realities of Stardust by Bruce P. Grether


The Afterlife Revolution by Anne & Whitley Strieber


AIDS Shaman: Queer Spirit Awakening by Shokti Lovestar


Facing the Truth of Your Life by Merle Yost


The Super Natural by Whitley Strieber & Jeffrey J Kripal


Secret Body by Jeffrey J Kripal


In Hitler's House by Jonathan Lane


Walking on Glory by Edward Swift


The Paradox of Porn by Don Shewey


Is Heaven for Real? by Lucien Gregoire


In Search of Lost Lives by Michael Goddart


Queer Magic by Tomas Prower


God in Your Body by Jay Michaelson


Science Whispering Spirit by Gary Preuss


Friends of Dorothy by Dee Michel


New by Whitley Strieber


Developing Supersensible Perception by Shelli Renee Joye

Sage Sapien by Johnson Chong


Tarot of the Future by Arthur Rosengarten


Brothers Across Time by Brad Boney


Impresario of Castro Street by Marc Huestis


Deathless by Andrew Ramer


The Pagan Heart of the West, Vol 1 by Randy P. Conner


Practical Tantra by William Schindler


The Flip by Jeffrey J. Kripal


A New World by Whitley Strieber


Bernhard & LightWing by Damien Rowse


The Mountains of Paris by David Oates


Trust Truth by Trudie Barreras


How to be an Excellent Human Being by Bill Meacham


Scissors, Paper, Rock by Fenton Johnson




Toby Johnson's Books on Gay Men's Spiritualities:




Gay
Perspective cover
Gay Perspective

Things Our [Homo]sexuality
Tells Us about the
Nature of God and
the Universe


Gay Perspective audiobook
Gay Perspective is available as an audiobook narrated by Matthew Whitfield. Click here







Gay
Spirituality cover
Gay Spirituality

Gay Identity and 
the Transformation of
Human Consciousness



gay-spirituality-audiobook
Gay Spirituality   is now available as an audiobook, beautifully narrated by John Sipple. Click here








charmed lives
Charmed Lives: Gay Spirit in Storytelling

edited by
Toby Johnson
& Steve Berman







secret matter
Secret Matter

Lammy Award Winner for Gay Science Fiction

updated







Getting Life
Getting Life in Perspective

A Fantastical Romance





Getting
Life in Perspective audiobook
Getting Life in Perspective is available as an audiobook narrated by Alex Beckham. Click here 






The Fourth Quill

The Fourth Quill

originally published as PLAGUE




johnson-the-fourth-quill-audiobook
The Fourth Quill is available as an audiobook, narrated by Jimmie Moreland. Click here






Two
Two Spirits: A Story of Life with the Navajo

with Walter L. Williams




Two Spirits
audiobookTwo Spirits  is available as an audiobook  narrated by Arthur Raymond. Click here






Finding Your Own True Myth - The Myth of the Great Secret III
Finding Your Own True Myth:
What I Learned from Joseph Campbell

The Myth of the Great Secret III








In
Search of God in the Sexual Underworld
In Search of God  in the Sexual Underworld










The Myth of the Great Secret II

The Myth of the Great Secret: An Appreciation of Joseph Campbell.

This was the second edition of this book.




rainbow line



Toby Johnson's titles are available in other ebook formats from Smashwords.


 


Henry Seale Interviews Toby Johnson

Deep Consciousness: A Gay Perspective



Ironic Horse Studio


April 26-27, 2008 Toby Johnson led an "In-House Retreat," titled Deep Consciousness: A Gay Perspective, at Ironic Horse Studio in Albuquerque,  NM, the home and art & culture studio of Peter Grahame and Henry Seale.

In preparation for their meeting, Henry interviewed Toby through email.

Here's the text of that interview.


***

Sadly for those who remain, in Peter's beautiful words:

 "Henry happily, peacefully left the planet for parts unknown, took an early flight Wednesday morning, February 20th, 2019."

May his memory be a blessing.






The Interview

February, 2008

Henry Seale:    What do you think the present, past, and future role of gay men is in bringing about spiritual renewal in the religions of the world?

Toby Johnson: Good question… and good place to start a conversation. This really is the theme of most of my books. One of the great influences in my life was the comparative religions teacher and mythologists Joseph Campbell. He's best known for his aphorism "Follow Your Bliss." I read his books in college and grad school, then met him in person and became part of the crew that worked his seminars and lectures in Northern California during the 1970s.

One of Campbell's ideas was that the myths and religions of old have lost much of their power because they are not consistent with modern, scientific worldviews. The authority of Church officials or of the Bible don't make sense to citizens of a liberal democracy, such as we have in the United States. We look to the future for truth, not to the past. Almost everything believed in in the past has been proved untrue, after all.
 
So we need a "new myth," a new way of conceptualizing and dramatizing the meaning of life. That is actually what religion is for, isn't it? Not to describe "metaphysical truth," but to give people a reason for living and a sense of being part of something bigger than themselves.

Following my own bliss has shown me that perhaps this "new myth" is the understanding of religion, myth and spirituality from over and above--from an outsider's perspective. In that way we can understand that ALL the myths and religions are true, in the sense that they are all metaphors for the meaning of life in the expanded context.

Well, gay people are naturals for such an understanding from an outsider's perspective. We are outsiders all the time. We learn how to take other people's firm beliefs and opinions with the proverbial "grain of salt." We see that most people (especially the religious ones) are wrong about the nature of sex and of homosexuality. Wouldn't we expect them to be wrong about most other things as well?

Henry, what you call "spiritual renewal" has got to mean finding a way to make sense of religion in the modern world AND helping the world to get away from the evils of religion--like inquisition, jihad and crusade.

History shows us that people we'd now call "gay" were the shamans, mystics and prophets that started religion in the first place. It's appropriate that we be part of the "modernization" of spiritual meaning.

And, besides, the treatment we get from the Fundamentalists today is THE very evidence that that kind of religion has gone wrong. The whole message of Jesus Christ was that being good isn't about obeying purity rules and taboos, but about being kind, compassionate and loving people. That Right-Wing preachers and politicos rail against homosexuals, instead of being loving, is evidence they've missed the real teaching of Jesus.

And gay people --not all, of course, but many-- ARE the kind, compassionate people Jesus was calling for. Blending genders/overcoming gender distinctions makes us gentle and sensitive to others.

SO, we contribute to the spiritual renewal of Earth by offering an outsider's perspective that EVERYBODY ought to be adopting and by demonstrating sensitive behavior.

***

Hnery SealeHenry: Why do you think some activists view you as a "separatist," a view I have a hard time reconciling with your books?

Toby (laughing):
I have to admit I have a hard time thinking there are activists out there who think anything about me. One of my own experiences--as an outsider-- is that I’ve been fairly invisible. But I'd be pleased to think anybody had an opinion of me.

And, well, I do think of myself as a "separatist" in a way. I learned a long time ago when I was working in a gay-identified mental health clinic in San Francisco that men and women and gays and lesbians--and by extension, black people and brown people, etc., etc., all have different ways of seeing the world. Men can't speak for women. Gay men can't explain lesbians' perspectives. This isn't separatism as exclusion or rejection, but as respect for others' views and experiences.

How I'd like to frame what you've called my "separatism" is as specific gay community service. As a  psychotherapist I worked with gay men; I believed gay men needed gay therapists, that is, gay role models. My own work has always focused on improving gay life by finding our place in the world AS GAY where we can participate and contribute.

There are a whole set of gay activists who see their work as changing laws and educating straight people. That work is important. My own work has focused on the gay men. I'd rather help gay men think about themselves positively and affirmatively and so to live good lives.

Besides, I don't think we really want to be "assimilated." Being normal is the booby prize. I think we have "special talents" as gay and our contribution to the world is to be gay in the best way we can, not to be just like everybody else. What's the contribution in that?

***

Henry: Tell me about your relationship with Joseph Campbell.

Toby: I read his main book THE HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES for a college class in Jungian literary criticism. I was--to use an expression of that day--just blown away. I was in the process of going from one Catholic religious order to another at the time: very religious! But all of a sudden it all seemed to make sense. The way to understand religious truth was as metaphor and poetry.

Later when I was living in San Francisco, I saw he was giving a talk at a conference center in Ukiah, north of the City. I was a poor hippie flower child at the time and so applied for a work scholarship. I was asked to come up a day early to help clean the building. Campbell also
arrived early and I had the opportunity to meet him more personally than just attending the talk. I guess I did a pretty good job as a work scholar because I was invited to join the staff of the center. So for four or five more summers I went up to Ukiah to cook and clean and listen to wonderful talks about new paradigm thought-- and to hear Joseph Campbell when he came for his annual appearance.

Later, the team from that place reassembled in the City to host his appearances there as well. Then after his death in '78, his books and papers got collected in an archives at Pacifica Graduate School outside Santa Barbara. I was on the original Board of Directors. I guess my "bliss" has included helping the rest of the world learn about Campbell's approach to religion and myth.

***

Henry: Why do you choose to base yourself in San Antonio?

Toby: I was born in San Antonio--just a few days before the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, by the way. It's a beautiful city though perhaps a little behind the advance of American culture: it's dominated by Mexican Catholicism and the U.S. military--both conservatizing forces.

In the late 70s, I'd worked (with nick-namesake Toby Marotta) in a study of mental health and social service programs for runaway youth involved into prostitution. "The Hustler Study" we called it. We lived in inner city/ red light hotels in New York and San Francisco and interviewed gay teenagers out late at night standing on street corners. It was quite an adventure!

By the time the study was over in 1981, I'd become convinced the best thing gay men in San Francisco could do for themselves and for gay liberation would be to go home to their hometowns to spread "the gospel of liberation." And I'd been scared by some of the things I saw doing the Hustler Study. (I was almost murdered by one of my interview subjects--that still gives me the willies to think about!)

So in 81, I moved back home to San Antonio. I was "that gay therapist" here for a while and the gay spokesperson who was willing to go on TV to explain gay issues--which increasingly became about AIDS. In 1984 I met my partner, Kip Dollar. We moved to Austin a few years later to run the gay bookstore. I retired from doing therapy and focused on writing. I really believe gay literature is one of the ways we help shape our community's self-image and concept of the meaning of life.

Kip and I did the bookstore for seven years, then ran a couple of gay B&Bs--another way of doing gay community service (and, one might say, a "separatist" service, in the sense that the idea is to give gay people accommodations where there won't be straight people to have opinions about them).

Coming back home was very good for me. I was in Texas then during the last decade of my mother's life,  and was very pleased with that. While she died in the early 90s, Kip's mother is still living and we're staying in San Antonio so he can have the same good experience.

My name in religious life was Peregrine, which means "wanderer." Both of us have got a wanderin' streak. So maybe we're looking for other places to go...

***

Henry: What do you see as the future for same sex domestic partnership in this county?

Toby: Kip and I have been champions of long-term relationships. We're just celebrating our 24th anniversary together. In Austin, because we were very visible as owners of the gay bookstore, we participated in several political events related to "same sex marriage." We are actually the first male couple registered as domestic partners in Texas (Travis County, where Austin is had a registry for partner benefits for county employees briefly in the early 90s.)

I think it is very important for gay people to get the same kind of treatment under the law that straight people get. "Marriage" has ramifications for property ownership and personal finances. Since we live in couples we should have the same recognition of interpersonal responsibilities as everybody else. But I don't particularly think traditional heterosexual marriage is a very good
role model for our relationships. We don't think like straight people. Our vision of the world is not polarized into male and female. Our lives aren't about reproducing biological offspring.
 
I think perhaps the most important consequence of the same sex marriage debate is that it demonstrates to young gay men and lesbians that love and partnership await them as they grow older. They are not doomed to be lonely old men and spinsters--the way the pop myth taught.

And I think we demonstrate to all people straight and gay, that one doesn't need to reproduce to live a good, happy, contributing life. With overpopulation of the Earth as THE single great problem facing us--and one which is virtually ignored by the non-gay masses--the message that you don't need to have children to have a good life is VERY important.


spacer

Peter and Henry


Henry's partner Peter Grahame is an accomplished artist and photographer. He has created beautiful collages blending these two creative mediums. Peter created covers for Toby's books Gay Perspective, Getting Life in Perspective, and Secret Matter.


Contemplations





His book of photos of gay men as holy cards is titled Contemplations of the Heart: A Book of Male Spirit.


Peter Grahame







Below is Peter's Christmas card for 2019.







Peter Grahame & Hnery Seale Christmas card 2019

 

rainbow line

Toby Johnson, PhD is author of nine books: three non-fiction books that apply the wisdom of his teacher and "wise old man," Joseph Campbell to modern-day social and religious problems, four gay genre novels that dramatize spiritual issues at the heart of gay identity, and two books on gay men's spiritualities and the mystical experience of homosexuality and editor of a collection of "myths" of gay men's consciousness. 

Johnson's book GAY SPIRITUALITY: The Role of Gay Identity in the Transformation of Human Consciousness won a Lambda Literary Award in 2000.

His  GAY PERSPECTIVE: Things Our [Homo]sexuality Tells Us about the Nature of God and the Universe was nominated for a Lammy in 2003. They remain in print.

FINDING YOUR OWN TRUE MYTH: What I Learned from Joseph Campbell: The Myth of the Great Secret III tells the story of Johnson's learning the real nature of religion and myth and discovering the spiritual qualities of gay male consciousness.

 back to top


BACK to Toby's home page


valid html

Visitors
Essential SSL